The Ups and Downs of Changing Rigs
/In our post from October 15th, titled “Suddenly Without Work”, I shared the details of the first 5th wheel we purchased, a 2014 Open Range Light 315BHS. While we initially thought it was the perfect rolling home for us, in the 3 months that we lived in it, we quickly identified some issues that became dealbreakers for us. A quick recap of the issues:
The cable driven slides were bound to be problematic, to the point that the RV tech we were working with recommended carrying an extra motor for the living room slide to swap it out once it finally gave it up (inevitably in the middle of nowhere).
The layout was too compartmentalized for how we actually occupied the trailer. Of the 36 overall feet, 8 feet was only being used by the cats, and while I love them dearly… that just wasn’t ok.
So, our options were to:
Tough it out for this first year of travel, and make a decision about purchasing a different trailer over the summer of 2019.
Make the change now, even though it was going to be a costly one.
We decided against option one because we didn’t want the shoe we knew would eventually drop to constantly be hanging over our heads, clouding our view of what traveling is really like. We didn’t want to risk the success of the whole experience over the wrong 5th wheel choice.
The second option won for three reasons -
We were still employed, so getting a new loan would likely be easier,
we had just sold our house, so we had some financial wiggle room, and
we hadn’t given exact end dates to our employers, so it would be pretty easy to continue working for a bit to help offset the costs.
In the end, we only had to extend our departure date by about a month because at the end of this first round of travels, we will need to pause to work for a bit. With Scott being in the construction industry, the ideal time for him to pick up work would be just as the summer season kicks off (sometime in May), so regardless of when we started, we would need to plan on pausing in May 2019. By extending our work life by a month, and giving ourselves a more defined end date, we would only be traveling for 9 months, therefore we didn’t need as much in the travel fund.
Rolling Home Shopping- Round Two!
Over the summer of 2017, as I was just starting my research into RVs, I had googled something to the effect of “best RV for full timing” (I don’t recall the exact search text), and I found a list of brands that were (supposedly) the top 5 RV manufacturers for full timers. Some of the names I recognized, some I did not. I then started googling each manufacturer to learn more about them and see what floor plans they offered.
Grand Design
Grand Design immediately stood out (partially because of lots of shiny pictures!) and they even had a page specifically for full timers. I scoured over the floor plans and found a few that I really liked, but the price tag was NOT for us! With Scott still barely willing to discuss RV’s at that time, I had to put them out of my mind.
All of that changed when we decided that a different rig was in order. Now that Scott was on board, we were looking at something that would be home for the next several years, regardless of how frequently our location was changing. And, we had a better idea of the features that were critical for us to occupy the rig full time.
Key Amenities
Our time in the Open Range highlighted the following as absolute musts:
More kitchen counter space and a better sink arrangement - our house had counters for days… so much so, that either I wasn’t using them (if I was really on my game), or more realistically, they were the catch all. The Open Range was exactly the opposite. The counter space was the corner between the stove and the sink, with the option to cover the sink and lift a section of counter on the side of the sink for a bit more room. The main area was slightly bigger than a large cutting board. On top of that, the sink was split into two small basins that made cleaning large dishes difficult.
A Non-Corner Shower - we knew that all RVs would have a small shower in comparison to a traditional house, but the corner shower in the Open Range barely had enough room to turnaround. Shaving my legs was SO difficult!
A Bed Rotated on the Slide - Downsizing from a king to a queen was proving to be difficult. Boomer is an under the covers kind of fur kid and once he has put himself to bed (because, yes, he actually does that), he audibly protests if you try to move him. The layout of the main bedroom in the Open Range gave a little more than 12 inches of walking space around the bed, including at the foot. There was slightly more space on my side and we put a small dog bed down for Kona, but since the cats didn’t fit on the bed anymore, they laid claim to the dog bed. Kona took to folding himself in the corner at the foot of Scott’s side. At night you could hear his claws against the wall as he tried to cram himself in. When the bed is rotated on the slide, you get quite a bit more floor space (and a bigger closet… 😊).
A Better Lounging Space - While I had thought the giant U-shaped sectional in the Open Range would give a lot of flexibility and room for everyone, Scott couldn’t get comfortable, so he was avoiding the space all together. Plus, we had established a routine of eating at the dinner table in our house and the two tables (oversized TV trays) in the Open Range just weren’t cutting it.
As we started discussing options and creating this list of must haves, Grand Design popped back in my head. And not just the brand in general, a specific floor plan that had caught my eye last summer.
Reflection 320MKS
Meet our new rolling home! Yet to be named, but one we are very happy with!
It met every one of our must haves - a farmhouse sink in a island (which fits because of opposing slides in the living area) which freed up counter space next to the stove. It easily doubled the counter space from the old rig, and if you included the built in desk (yep - a desk!), it tripled. The sink is one big basin, and while there are pros and cons here… I can wash any dish we have on board with ease.
The living space has theater seating, which equates to two recliners that have built in massagers and heated seats. There is also a loveseat that becomes a guest bed if needed. Across from the recliners is the entertainment center - complete with an electric fireplace that can put off heat if desired.
The bathroom - oh the bathroom! Our shower is about 3’ x 4’. It is large enough to have a little seat in the corner. No more annoyances when trying to shave my legs!! The rest of the bathroom is small, but it is still very comfortable and has more than enough storage.
Our bed is rotated on the slide, giving about 3 feet of space at the foot, plus larger walking space on either side of the bed. The closet spans the entire width of the RV, and is plumbed for a washer and dryer if we wanted them (but, functionally, they would be quite annoying to use).
Other perks of the new rig include increased cargo capacity, something we were desperately in need of. The old rig had about 1300 pounds and when we took it to a scale we found that we were a few hundred pounds overweight. We didn’t even have all of our gear on board and the missing items were not light weight things (Scott’s tools, the Traeger, generator, solar panels, etc.). The new rig has 3135 pounds of cargo capacity. While we haven’t officially weighed ourselves, I have more confidence in our ability to stay within that limit.
It is also more sturdy. The old rig was a “half-ton towable”model. I say that with quotes because it is debatable if a larger travel trailer or 5th wheel is truly half-ton towable, especially when full-timing. To be half-ton towable, it must be light weight, generally somewhere around 7,000 pounds dry. In order to achieve this light weight on a larger unit, light materials will be used, allowing for more flex as you move around in the trailer and as the trailer travels down the road at highway speeds. In general, our old rig felt like it would show more wear and tear faster. The new rig still requires the same periodic maintenance, but it should stand up to our travels a bit better.
The Trade-In Process
It was such an odd feeling picking your new home from a list of existing floor plans, and then walking into a dealer and essentially saying, “I want that one.” While we had a Grand Design dealer locally, they didn’t have the 320MKS, so we drove about an hour north to a dealer that did. I made Scott walk through a few other rigs with me just to be sure, but the moment we walked into the one we were after - we were home.
So, off we went to talk with someone about trade in value for the Open Range. This is where we learned a very difficult lesson. It was going to cost us a lot more than we were expecting. Through work, I had some familiarity with how a Credit Union/Bank would determine the value of the rig - by using NADAGuides.com. When you search for a particular model, it will tell you the base price and then give a whole bunch of check boxes for all of the amenities that come with it. Some of these things would be actual upgrades (double pane windows for example), but some things are standard (the number of slides for that particular floor plan). From a lenders perspective, and apparently when A dealer figures the value for their sales price, you get to include the check boxes to improve the value of the rig, therefore allowing for a higher loan amount. But when it comes to trading it back in, the dealer just goes by the base price.
Now, I know that RVs are just like cars - they are depreciating assets. I just haven’t ever changed cars within the same year to really feel the bite of deprecation. The base price when we traded it in, in July 2018, was within a $1,000 of the base price when we purchased it, in February 2018. The problem was those darn checkboxes. I had even questioned when we were in the midst of the first buying process, how to decide what checkboxes to use because it was slightly different from dealer to dealer.
Typically, lenders require a 20% down payment when buying an RV or a boat. I was expecting this, but we ended up finding a lender that didn’t, so we financed the whole thing. Originally, our plan had been to use the money from selling the house to pay the loan down, and potentially have the loan re-amortized after the large payment to reduce the monthly payment a bit. If we hadn’t changed rigs, this would have worked - we would have brought ourselves below the trade in value, and as long as we continued making the original monthly payment amount even after getting it officially reduced, we would have had more applied to principal on a regular basis, thus further improving our position.
But, since we decided to trade the rig in so quickly, it didn’t work in our favor. I do want to point out a few things.
We bought the original 5th wheel for $30,000. On top of that, we added in the extended warranty/GAP protection, so our final loan amount was more like $35,000. Based on the NADA value with all of the checkboxes, it seemed like we got a decent deal. However, the base price was only $19,000, so even if we had put down 20% ($6,000-$7,000) in an attempt to protect ourselves from immediately being underwater… it wouldn’t have achieved that status. Also, the reduced value was depreciation, but at the same time it wasn’t. I say that because, the base value didn’t change much in the time we owned the rig. The vast majority of this lesson learned was in whether or not to use checkboxes. My advice to anyone buying an RV - go in with the base value as your target, and don’t finance anything over that. You may still pay more than the base value, but pay that difference up front.
The base value would probably have been very similar in February 2019 to what it was in July 2018. So, if we had waited to trade in the rig, we would have had essentially the same monetary loss, but it wouldn’t have hurt quite as much because it would have been divided up over more months. In the end, it cost us $15,000 to make up the difference between the loan amount and the trade in value. On top of that, we still had to put down more money on the new rig for the new loan. Like I said, it wasn’t a cheap decision to change rigs!
One bit of silver lining - you can cancel the extended warranty/GAP protection and get a prorated portion of your original expense back. It took a little over 2 months, but we got our refund.
The first dealer we went to (the one about an hour away) wasn’t all that interested in working with us. They had another buyer looking at the same rig that likely had a much less complicated financial situation, so they somewhat gave us the cold shoulder and out the door we went. We took the opportunity to call Scott’s former boss from many moons ago, and ask for pointers on how to approach the next dealer. His recommendation was to not even mention the trade in until the last possible moment.
We went to the local dealer that didn’t have the 320MKS on their lot, but they did have one at a different location up in Washington. We didn’t even tour anything, just went straight for it - “We would like to buy a Grand Design Reflection 320MKS, but I understand you don’t have any on location. What would the process be to have it brought down from one of your Washington locations?” This only drove home the weird feeling of picking your new home off of a store shelf.
I felt quite awkward through the entire negotiation process, but we finagled a purchase price we were comfortable with and as the dealer offered his handshake, I said “Ok, now we need to discuss our trade.” The look on his face made my anxiety peak a bit, but then he chuckled and said “Wow, the Cincinnati Switch… I haven’t seen that one in a long time.” They were invested in completing the sale, and while they didn’t budge much on the trade in value, we had worked the other angle enough to feel good about our decision.
Trading Spaces
The last step in changing rigs, was to actually move out of the one and into the other. I have watched videos and read about other full timers changing rigs. For the most part, it seems the method of choice is to park both rigs with the front doors aligned in the dealership parking lot and you carry your stuff out the door of one right into the door of the other. We considered this, but since we were making the switch in July, the animals would have been restricted to the cab of the truck and they would have very quickly overheated.
Our alternative was to pack up our stuff over the week and find somewhere in the old rig to stack it all while still being able to live in the space. Then at 6:00 AM on moving day, we laid a tarp out in the grassy area by the trailer in the RV park, and piled all of our stuff on it. Around noon, we encircled it with our collapsible dog kennel and threw a tarp over the top, before heading the short distance to the dealership to complete our walk through (with the old rig and animals still at our RV space). Once we had a green light that the new rig would be coming home with us, we picked up the old rig and loaded the fur kids into the cab of the truck for a quick drop off/pick up exchange. When we returned to the RV space, we brought the animals inside for their first look at their new home. While they were investigating all of the nooks and crannies, Scott carried our stuff back to the door and handed it to me to put it somewhere inside. The day finally ended around 6:00 PM with all of our stuff back inside… but certainly not put away. The majority of our stuff found it’s new home the next day, but the fine tuning of where everything would fit still took a few weeks, about the same as moving into a new house.
After five and a half months in it, the space is still meeting all of our wants and truly feels like home when we walk in the door, so all of the expense was definitely worth it.